Steam & Power Forum RSS

test - By: poppy [1270]

Thu, 17 May 2012 12:27:00 -0300

test

Re: two layers in steam drum - By: Rick [195]

Tue, 15 May 2012 12:59:00 -0300

I have never seen anything like this before. The water lines are too defined to be caused by foaming. My guess would be you are using a multi-element feedwater level control system and the higher water line is the normal water line when all elements are functioning. Some feedwater level control systems stay on single element control until a specific steam load is reached. In single element control you would be running with a lower water level, indicated by the lower water line.

Re: New PM system ideas - By: Rick [195]

Mon, 14 May 2012 08:01:00 -0300

Not all CMMS systems have the same features. You will have to work with the features that exist within your system. You might want to re-state your questions as it is difficult to figure out exactly what you are asking.

New PM system ideas - By: windseaker1@hotmail.com [1412]

Thu, 10 May 2012 01:07:00 -0300

Have been given the task of taking over less then half done developing of a new PM & numbing system for old boiler and new one. Some tags and some tag information exist. The CMMS system is old FAMIS version to create PM work orders to do route en maintenance of clearing check valve, flushing strainers, purging steam line, est. Ive found all print and scheduled of mechanical equipment with construction item number and model, p/n/,s/n of equipment.
Its a hurtle race, Ive cleared some big one already and that is the way its going to beits R & D .

So, question for you is :
How to group equipment with multiple components to them if last guy has already linked Parent, child.
or
Would you have to do it late in the PM section of software.
or
Does a normal PM software allow you to create subgroups before a PM w.o. is created?

Go have a beer and doodle later.
I have big ears to listen to ideas and the more the better, we are in for a pound.

Really, any good ideas are welcome, no beer talk.

Re: steam power plant engine tinytech 5hp - By: Jim Watts [764]

Mon, 7 May 2012 22:28:00 -0300

I have no concerns regarding the integrity of the design, and it appears agricultural enough to be obvious where you should not put your hand etc.
My concern it that it is miniaturised high tech equipment that is being operated at pressures requiring proper water supplies and ongoing verification of safety equipment.
In itself this would not be a problem except that it is being operated by people unfamiliar with these requirements, and also unfamiliar with basic operation such that you get this question which should be obvious that the plant is being loaded to quickly.

This is exactly the same conditions which occurred at the start of the industrial age and the early twentieth century.
The newspapers at the time had a section labelled..... BIRTHS, DEATHS and BOILER EXPLOSIONS.

Re: Boiler Flue Gas Temperature Problem - By: Jim Watts [764]

Mon, 7 May 2012 22:09:00 -0300

There is no enclosed layout diagram, however the general idea is clear.

It is obvious that the implied conditions are impossible, but at the same time the instruments appear to be accurate.

This means that what is being measured is not what you think it is.

The only likely way the process could be corrupted to cause this, is if the GAH outlet temperature is being diluted with a small flow of cold air near the thermocouple.
Check there are no instrument purges left open.
Verify the temperature at different positions around the duct and in the centre if possible.

Let us know what you find.

Re: Frequency Insensitive system effect on Generator? - By: Jim Watts [764]

Mon, 7 May 2012 21:53:00 -0300

It is common to wish to limit the Generator output at a certain figure.
Turbines at the size you have, usually have a load limiter mode for this purpose.
On hydraulic governors it is a separate bleed on the governor oil pressure so that the governor valves will not open beyond the set value. On digital governors it is a low signal selector that selects the lowest valve opening being set by the governor or the load limiter.

The governor itself is not effected and retains its same response.

Going onto load limit mode is just lowering the load limit setting until the governor valves close a little then increasing the governor setting to provide a deadband before it will begin to lower if this is required.

If frequency drops no change will occur on the turbine.
If frequency increases the turbine will unload in proportion as usual.

If the generator trips the turbine will settle at the no load speed the turbine governor has been raised to.

The only issue with your proposal is if everyone on the network did the same, there would be no stabilising response to falling frequency except load shedding on the network.

Re: steam power plant engine tinytech 5hp - By: Glencannon [28]

Mon, 7 May 2012 17:37:00 -0300

Most jurisdictions have standards the equipment operated in said jurisdictions must meet. Any equipment not meeting those standards, no matter how well it is made should not be operated in those jurisdictions for insurance and other regulatory reasons.

Equipment made for domestic uses must be approved by local codes and standards as well. Usually domestic equipment standards are more loose than industrial ones. Still, it is important to make sure that material specifications and proper welding procedures are done when building and installing anything to do with steam. You also need to make sure that local utilities are OK with hooking up anything that may impact their equipment.

If you are trying to get off the grid altogether you still have to make sure your equipment doesnt create hazards for your neighbors and that you have enough water to operate it. Any waste products such as ash or contaminated water must be dealt with too. You can not just dump it in a nearby creek or dig a hole in the ground and contaminate the aquifer.

It is not just about being self sufficient. Everything you do is likely to impact your neighbors.

Boiler Flue Gas Temperature Problem - By: John Amstrong [1410]

Sun, 6 May 2012 13:32:00 -0300

We have HFO Oil fired boiler that generate steam for 300MW Steam turbine. Boiler Steam generation capacity is 1000 tons/hr.

At Gas Air Heater GAH outlet flue gas path, there are thermocouples which read flue gas temperature called Back End Temperature. At this point, 150 C temperature is observed usually.

Then this flue gas is passed through the duct 30 meter length to stack. Near stack, thermocouples also mounted there which read flue gas temperature. At this point, 160 C temperature is observed.

Now our concern is WHY THIS 10C TEMPERATURE IS INCREASING BETWEEN â€™BACK END TEMPERATURE STACK INLET FLUE GAS TEMPERATURE KEEPING IN MIND THERE IS NO INGRESS OF ENERGY BETWEEN THESE POINTS?
According to the system design, temperature should be dropped here rather than increasing!

We have 4 boilers & same behavior is observed on all 4 boilers. We have also ensured the integrity of our temperature sensors & they all are OK. Thermocouples type & mounting position is same at both sensing points.

Please consult the enclosed layout diagram for clear understanding.

Please give your precious feedback on possible reasons of this problem.

Thanks

Frequency Insensitive system effect on Generator? - By: John Amstrong [1410]

Sun, 6 May 2012 12:54:00 -0300

Our power plant has Oil Fired Boilers & Steam Turbines 4 x 300 MW 1200MW. Our national grid has large variations in grid frequency since we have extensive difference in between demand and supply of power.

We have 50 Hz system. When grid gets over loaded, frequency starts declining & mostly it gets around even 48.5Hz. Consequently, our generators also respond to this change according to droop setting droop setting5% on all 4 units. BUT sometimes our generator MW output hits +320MW or even more.

I just want to inquire, if we make our generators output MW FREQUENCY INSENSITIVE for 300MW i.e. it wonâ€™t respond to frequency change when itâ€™s already operating at 300MW then IN SUCH CASE, WHAT WOULD BE ITS HARMFUL IMPACT ON OUR GENERATOR/TURBINE ?

Looking forward for your feedback.

Thanks

Re: Looking for Commissioning services provider for Thermal Power Plant - By: manoj@nsthermalenergy.com [1408]

Thu, 3 May 2012 02:41:00 -0300

Dear Sir,

Kindly provide me your mail id so that i can assist you the same. We are service providers, my e-mail id is manoj@nsthermalenergy.com

Thanks & Regards
Manoj Thakur
8750848529

Re: Looking for Commissioning services provider for Thermal Power Plant - By: Manoj Thakur [1408]

Thu, 3 May 2012 02:25:00 -0300

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â€¢ Fabrication & Erection activities at Site.
â€¢ Exhaustive Operation & Maintenance of Power Plants including Gas Turbine Based Power Plants..
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â€¢ Commissioning Assistance to Power Plants.

We are forwarding to you as attachment following for your immediate perusal,
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â€¢ Profile of Key Personnel at our Head office for coordination.
â€¢ Photograph of our works facilities illustrative of our facilities.
â€¢ O & M reference list.
â€¢ Reference list of Boiler Erection & Commissioning.
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We would be in a position to deploy Expert Man Power for Commissioning Assistance to your Power Projects on a short notice as well.

We would request you to register us for above activities and forward to us your enquiries for the works.

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Regards,
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Mobile - +91 8750848529

Note: We would also be interested to take up following,
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â€¢ The unit is supported with Engineering & Manufacturing of Pressure Part for Boilers upto 300 TPH capacity.
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Re: steam power plant engine tinytech 5hp - By: Deltakprime [1407]

Wed, 2 May 2012 15:56:00 -0300

Jim and anyone else with relevant information on the subject:

Would you care to further explain your comment?

I presume you are referring to safety issues.
What are your specific concerns regarding this equipment?

Thanks.

two layers in steam drum - By: S. M KRISHNA [1406]

Wed, 2 May 2012 06:38:00 -0300

Got to go intoa steam drum and overall, it looked good. Well passivated , no sludge on the floor.
Did see one thing I need your thoughts on.

The normal water line could be easily identified. Right around the middle of the drum.
Then, you go up about 10 â€“ 12â€ and there is what appears to be another water line. Good passivation in between. My first thought was a surge in the level of the drum or they did have a foaming issue sometime in the past.

If the water got at the higher level, it would have been over the slingers. None of them showed any evidence of fouling or build-up.
Again, never seen this before. Take a look at the photo and let me know your thoughts.

Re: Steam Turbine - By: Rick [195]

Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:08:00 -0300

In droop mode the turbine governor works in conjunction with other on-line generators to share load demand changes proportionally. A tubine running in isochronous mode will sense system load demand increases by sensing a change in frequency and will pick up all load changes rather than sharing the load changes will the other generators on-line.

Re: steam power plant engine tinytech 5hp - By: Jim Watts [764]

Sat, 28 Apr 2012 03:07:00 -0300

I agree with you Glen, these plants look like a time bomb to me.

Re: saturated or superheated steam - By: Jim Watts [764]

Sat, 28 Apr 2012 03:02:00 -0300

Saturation Temperature for 6 Kg/cm2 is 164.3 Centigrade
After throttling to 4 Kg/cm2 you will have 157.7 degrees
This is 6.5 degrees of superheat as the new saturation temp is 151.2 degrees.

In practice you will probably lose this 6 degrees in the distribution pipes and irt should not be a problem to heaters.
If it is, just remove a bit of insulation and put some fins on the pipe to act as a cooler.
To be more efficient you would have to use an attemporator.

Re: saturated or superheated steam - By: cmolanes@itba.edu.ar [50]

Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:47:00 -0300

Ideally, expansion in valves is isoenthalpic. For steam, isoenthalpic lines actually cross the steam line in an T-s diagram, so depending on the pressures involved and the steam conditions a slight condensing or superheating may result. Try plotting your expected steam input conditions pressure and title x if some humidity is to be expected, and check the outflow conditions following an isoenthalpic line, which are usually traced. You can also use a Mollier diagram, which affords greater accuracy and would therefore be more illustrative.

In real flow conditions, due to steam viscosity, a certain superheating will result due to the friction developed heat being practically 100% incorporated in the steam, increasing slightly its enthalpy value.

Good luck

Claudio Molanes

saturated or superheated steam - By: kishor [1405]

Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:00:00 -0300

Is that saturated steam after PCV is super heated?
because we throttling 6 kg/cm2 saturated steam to 4 kg/cm2 saturated steam.

thanking you.

kishor

Steam Turbine - By: Ram [917]

Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:51:00 -0300

What is the difference between Droop mode and Isochronous mode in the Steam turbine?