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About fuel additives.. gas turbine? boiler?...

Tuesday, October 31, 2017   By: Mo [2174] 1 Stars
Hello everyone, this question is about fuel additives.

Please correct me if Im wrong...

- For gas turbine fueled by heavy oils, the additive is based on Magnesium Sulfonate which is oil soluble and injected or blended with the fuel oil, not sure about the %.

- For boilers fueled by coal, the additive is based on Magnesium Hydroxide which is a slurry in water of probably 20-30%, and injected into the boiler pre-combustion with the coal or post combustion directly into the boiler.

These are two different things - different chemicals and different applications.. am I correct?

Thanks,
Mo

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Tuesday, October 31, 2017   By: Murphy [21] 4 Stars
I think you have a pretty good handle on fuel additives and how they manipulate Ash deposits. Your question seems to talk more about pretreatment, but I thought it might be helpful we talk about MgO and MgOH additives in liquid and solid fuels.

I would like to say that the end result is the same regardless of what it is being used. The object of the fuel additives you discussed are for corrosion control and suppress the high temperature corrosion reactions -formation of ash deposits and I dont mean just coal fired boilers but in combustion turbines or gas turbines.

Basically Additives such as Magnesium Oxides MgO and Magnesium Hydroxides MgOH and Magnesium Sulfate MgSO4 manipulate the combustion high temp corrosion reactions so the temperature at which these metal oxide or ash condensates form is lowered so they dont form on hot metal surfaces.

MgO and MgOH is sometimes less costly than MgSO4. So, that is a consideration.

MgO and MgOH will become corrosive at a temp of around 1750F or there about, but under that it works great. So, we see it is used on Boilers fuels. In a Combustion Turbine the temperatures are more tricky than a large furnace, but that is my opinion.

FYI - Sulfonate is an organo sulfur salt. We interchange this term by oversimplifying to say Magnesium makes the Sulfur Acid a Sulfur based Salt using Mg.

In pretreatment of Combustion Turbines, the use of Magnesium Sulfate MgSO4 is used to treat Vanadium Oxide deposits on Hot Section components, but not just VO for there likely is other trace metals that will condense out on the hot section components and corrode and severily just like on a boiler superheater and reheater.

I think it is important to understand the form that Sulfur take and it is generally in the form of FeS2 Pyite and or Na2SO4 Sodium Sulfate in the fuels. Na2SO4 is a bad player in Combustion Turbines hot zones and Boiler Superheaters and Reheaters. Na2SO4 has a melting temp around 1000F and mixed in the ash. Ugh doesnt begin to express the undesirability of Na2SO4 in fuels.

My general impression is the MgSO4 to V ratio is around 3:25 plus or minus some number, and it is not a rule for it is not right, so never follow it for we must and should consult with a professional to get it right and have your fuel pretreatment system double checked.

Maybe someone more smarter than me can readdress your question, but this explanation should help.

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Tuesday, October 31, 2017   By: Mo [2174] 1 Stars
Murphy, I am a bit confused between Magnesium Sulfate MgSO4 and Magnesium Sulfonate MgO3S.

Am I correct here?:

Mag Sulfate, similar to Mag Oxide and Mag Hydroxide - is not soluble in oil or water, and is injected to boilers only as a slurry.

Mag Sulfonate is soluble in oil and thus mixed with crude oil, this is for gas turbine only not for boilers.

Do you know what is the standard percentage of Mag Sulfate slurry % of solids in water, and what is the tandard percentage of Mag Sulfonate mixed in crude oil?

Thanks,
Mo




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Wednesday, November 01, 2017   By: Murphy [21] 4 Stars
The correct natural chemical formula based on bonding for what you call Magnesium Sulfonate is MgSO3 instead of weight order known as Hills crazy way of MgO3S. We call it magnesium sulfite.

SO3 is Sulfite and HSO3 is BiSulfite and also known as Hydrogen sulfite, Sulfonic acid, Bisulphite, Hydrogensulfite. This BiSulfite wants to couple up with a HydroCarbon or a weak chemical bond with Na known as Sodium BiSulfite. But Mg or Magnesium is more selective because it is an alkaline.

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Wednesday, November 01, 2017   By: Murphy [21] 4 Stars
I wanted to say that the Magnesium Sulfonate that your talk about is advertising talk as an Fuel Additive for the additive is a Trade Secret. This compound cant be purchased and it is not stable. It is likely a reaction in a process that exists only in the reaction as an unstable form.

Murphy


Fuel Additives - R&D Technical.pdf

Click on picture for full size view or to view PDF!

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Monday, November 13, 2017   By: Mo [2174] 1 Stars
Murphy, can you please attached the PDF file again? from some reason I can not download it - thank you.

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