Poppy and the Steam Forum and Power Forum

Welcome to the steam and power forum, a bulletin board dedicated to questions and answers to Steam Plants and Power Generation Plants for steam boilers, turbine generator and heating problems. Dedicated to power plants, power generation, supercritical, and heating plants as well as steam boilers, steam turbine generators, gas turbines or combustion turbines, hrsg, steam heating, pressure vessels, steam line, including ASME questions and more. Remember the forum is made up of volunteers from experts to beginners. Unfortunately, we cannot allow free commercialism that promotes products, services, or sites.
 
The Steam Forum and Power Forum is being sponsored by the following:

Poppy   Steam Forum  

TSP TriSodium Phosphate

Thursday, February 15, 2018   By: MM [2231] 1 Stars
Hello,

We currently dose TSP TriSodium Phosphate before our economiser and after the take off for de-superheating spay water. Am I correct in thinking that it is after de-superheating spay due to problems caused by phosphate depositions if it was to be dosed directly after the feedwater pump?

Thanks.

Post a Reply...
Viewed 533 times

Thursday, February 15, 2018   By: Murphy [21] 4 Stars
Using any treated feedwater for spray attemperation whether TPS or not is a problem for desuperheating. I think of this method as a poor substitute for pure water. I have seen this situation many times that you described over my life time career and more often than seeing a sweetwater condenser or a water drum coil to create pure distilled water. Dont get me wrong, boiler feedwater is pretty clean, but not distilled pure. Spray attemperation will always be a problem for deposits and in the long run will show less control of controlling a stable superheater temp. especially on load changes.

Murphy

Post a Reply...
Viewed 503 times

Thursday, February 15, 2018   By: Murphy [21] 4 Stars
Oops! I meant TSP and not TPS.

Post a Reply...
Viewed 493 times

Thursday, February 15, 2018   By: WN [2231] 1 Stars
Thank you. So if I understand correctly, the problem with using TSP treated water for spray attemperation would be deposit formation?

Post a Reply...
Viewed 489 times

Thursday, February 15, 2018   By: Murphy [21] 4 Stars
Just to reconfirm, using any feedwater, which is never distilled pure, will cause deposits whether treated with what every miracle chemical treatment or not. TSP is good for your boiler water, but will cause problems with attemperation equipment and steam line eventually. It is a short term solution.

Murphy

Post a Reply...
Viewed 486 times

Friday, February 16, 2018   By: Jim Watts [764] 5 Stars
The water used for attemporator spray is evaporated to steam. Any solids such as TSP in the water is therefore left as solids in the steam flow and can accumulate as scale on bends. Volatile chemicals which also evaporate to gas or vapour are perfectly ok dosed at the dearator to protect the feed piping and the boiler eg hydrazine.

Post a Reply...
Viewed 480 times

Saturday, February 17, 2018   By: basem belal [2194] 2 Stars
yes it is correct, the designer of your boiler choose dosing point of TSP after take off spray water for De-super-heater to avoid deposits coming into super-heater coils, steam pipes, valves and any equipment in the steam way.
it is not recommended to take the spray from feed water, the best to have condensing system above the drum feeding by saturated steam from drum and taking this condensate for spry it to control steam temperature.
I saw this situation before in five boilers in different countries and also I saw the deposits in steam line and valves.

Post a Reply...
Viewed 481 times

Sunday, February 18, 2018   By: Jim Watts [764] 5 Stars
It is not recommended to take spray water from Feedwater of Boilers being fed with softened water instead of Demineralised Water usually boilers around 18 bar or less. In such cases a source of condensate from a special condensing vessel above the drum is required.
In poorly controlled boilers usually in industrial service such as refineries, frequent foaming in the drum causes carryover of phosphate which then appears on valve stems and flanges with slight steam leaks.
My guess is you have refinery experience .

Post a Reply...
Viewed 474 times

Monday, February 19, 2018   By: basem belal [2194] 2 Stars
here I put some photo for deposits inside one control valve.

PicturePicturePicture

Click on picture for full size view or to view PDF!

Post a Reply...
Viewed 418 times

Monday, February 19, 2018   By: Murphy [21] 4 Stars
Excellent photos of a spray attemperator nozzle depicting deposits. Just by looking at the blockage we can see how maddening trying to control the downstream temperature when the buildup starts.

Murphy

Post a Reply...
Viewed 405 times

Monday, February 19, 2018   By: Jim Watts [764] 5 Stars
Im not sure if you are trying to show the copper corrosion in your condenser or the foaming from your drum reaching overhead condenser.
It is not what you find in a Demineralised water spray.

Post a Reply...
Viewed 406 times

Tuesday, February 20, 2018   By: basem belal [2194] 2 Stars
dear Jim,
this photos from one boiler in sugar plant, boiler running pressure is 25 bar, they take the spray water from feed water line, but their problem happened because they were using soft water and by time TDS reached to high value 60 ppm, then they get this problem.
agree with you if you use Demi water for control main steam temperature you will not face the same problem. but still the best way is to use condensate water for De-superheater.
thanks for valuable notes.

Post a Reply...
Viewed 411 times

Tuesday, February 20, 2018   By: Jim Watts [764] 5 Stars
While I stand by Demin water I would just like to clarify for inexperienced readers that the condensate you are refering to is not just any old condensate but a special supply from a dedicated condenser cooled with boiler feed water whose condensate is called sweet water.

Post a Reply...
Viewed 406 times

Published on steamforum.com

 

Featured
High Sulfite Residual
By: Ross. [390]

First, I want to say that large amounts of Sodium Sulfite NaSO3 becomes a contaminate because it will produce foaming and other problems, but foaming is the primary problem.

Your 500-psi Water Tube Boiler is seems to have reasonable level of residual Sodium Sulfite NaSO3 remaining in the boiler water. Nice pH too.

Your 300-psi Waste Heat Recovery Boiler has twice what I would expect for Sodium Sulfite NaSO3 at ranging 80-ppm to 100-ppm. pH is good so you are getting a good yield.

As....   Read All
Advertising Info - Click Here!

It's hard not to look at this ad at least once, then you go to the next page an notice it again. Maybe you will not read the message, but you will be thinking about the brand and we call that brand impressions.

About 2/3 of internet traffic is useless traffic and consist mostly of malicous-bad-robots.  However, there are good robots too.  We block bad-robots, and allow the good one's through, but we just do not count the good one's.  We want good straight-brand impressions for our advertisers with human impressions!

Imagine your static or animated display advertisement placed here, and if that is not enough you can include text too to expound on the virtues of your services and or products.    In addition, you can benefit by using our new advertisement feature to have your video included in your ad space.  Wow, make an infomerical with text and a display by combining all features to enhance the readers or audience's experience using your brand.  Ads can be much more than a static display ad. Here is an example of how your video could be used or position in this ad space:

 

Caption: This public domain video shows from TGM - Turbine Generator Maintenance - who provides the Right Plans, Processes, People, Tools and Attitude to provide superior Turbine Generator inspection and repair.  The author of the video is not an advertiser and is being used to show how the video ad can be of value to the reader since you have already being viewing the video.  It is hard not to think about the authors brand after viewing the video ad.  This is the benefit of Branding.

- Ask for our Media Kit -

 

 

A Long-Game that Earns Tomorrow's Sales


Click on this Promotional Advertisement to Contact Us Today!

Good Branding Puts Your Brand or Company in the Front of a Decision-Maker’s Mind for a Purchase either Months from Now or Five-Years in the Future.

Good branding makes your brand or company the leader in a crowded field of other brands or companies vying for your potential or existing client's attention. 

An invitation to the buyer's table to negotiate potential sales from $thousands to $millions of dollars in any of these: Systems sale, Capital Equipment, Upgrades & Modifications,  Repairs, or Capital Project becomes easier now with a recognized brand that thinks forward by brand advertising.

Your advertising will cost you an unbelievable low amount, so ask for our Media Kit that has Specs and Rates. 

Below is some of our demographic data for steam and power forum users will speak for itself:

Bus Sector Percent   Education Percent
Manufacturing 11%   College 51%
Power Gen 20%   Grad School 20%
Chemical & Petroleum 15%      
Medical Facilities 6%      
Pulp & Paper / Forest 7%      
Pharmaceutical 7%      

Our network works hard for you with placements for full coverage on part of the network, or full network placement.  Brand yourself today and don’t miss-out on being invited to your client or future client's table because they forgot you.  Be the leader they will remember and be part of their capital project.  Tomorrow’s clients are your future.

 

Advertising and Marketing Agency for the steam and power forum
PE Marketing, LLC

Branding.jpg

Sponsors/Advertisers
Industrial Training School
 
Industrial Training School - Maintenance
 
Industrial Training School
 
National Assoc of Stationary Operating Engineers
 
Confidentiality, Disclaimer; Policy
STEAM and POWER FORUM
© 2001 to Steam Forum, All Rights Reserved.
PE Marketing LLC is representing the steamforum for advertising and marketing
Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional